We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion
Details
Submitted by[?]: Partido Nacionalista y Unionista
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 4385
Description[?]:
| Intro - The Communist Party ( http://classic.particracy.net/viewparty.php?partyid=32031 ) has initiated some extreme violence on the forum - see here ( http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55&p=131819#p131819 ) and here ( http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55&p=131851#p131851 ). This has been initiated without any agreement as to how the RP is going to proceed. I propose that we discuss this and think about how we go about RPing this. Political Background - Between November 4368 ( http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=562980 ) and November 4376 ( http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564718 ) a coalition of left-wing parties governed Egelion, In November 4368 the left-wing parties had a majority of 2 in the Congress, but between 4370 and 4376 the leftists governed without any effective opposition following the collapse of the right-wing Frente Nacional Democrático ( http://classic.particracy.net/viewparty.php?partyid=26683 ). With the formation of the League which contested the November 4376 elections the leftists lost their majority and were soundly beaten in elections in both November 4376 and again in snap elections in 4377. Egelion Background - In the last 50 years Egelion has swung between periods of national, communist and centrist rule. However, if we look at the provincial profile, all regions are primarily right-wing, although Amateria would back internationalist parties; Amateria - http://classic.particracy.net/viewregion.php?regionid=182 - Vital Restrictive and Internationalist Yadráz - http://classic.particracy.net/viewregion.php?regionid=184 - Vital Laissez faire and Conservative Dulkinea - http://classic.particracy.net/viewregion.php?regionid=183 - Vital Laissez faire Caille - http://classic.particracy.net/viewregion.php?regionid=180 - Vital Conservative, Moderate Federalist Edergira - http://classic.particracy.net/viewregion.php?regionid=181 - Vital Conservative, Vital Militarist In we look at the last two contested elections (4376 - http://classic.particracy.net/viewnews.php?newsid=612387 and 4377 - http://classic.particracy.net/viewnews.php?newsid=612588) we can see the how the ideological breakdown of the parties played out at the ballot box. Amateria- 4376 Right 21% Left 78.9% 4377 Right 51.3% Left 48.7% Yadráz - 4376 Right 72.8% Left 27.2% 4377 Right 70.9% Left 29.1% Dulkinea- 4376 Right 69.3% Left 30.7% 4377 Right 63.8% Left 36.2% Caille- 4376 Right 64.9% Left 35.0% 4377 Right 60.5% Left 39.4% Edergira - 4376 Right 49.8% Left 50.1% 4377 Right 47.1% Left 52.7% As you can see, Egelion is a conservative country socially, and broadly favours capitalism in the regions where it is an issue. There is one region which appear to have favourable visibilities for leftist parties and that is Amateria with its Internationalist leanings. All other regions are favourable towards the right. Based on the election resultsf the left has any strength it is in Amateria and Edergira. If there is to be any resistance to the conservative government it should be in this regions. Recent Liga Activity - Elections - Liga win outright majority in Nov 4376 and largest party in Sep 4377. Win Presidential elections in both elections. Governments - Form majority government in Nov 4376 - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564718, form coalition government with Alliance in Sep 4377 http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564921. Bills - - Jul 4377 Importance of Church restored - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564688 - Restore the historic flag http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564679 - May 4387 - Ideological reformation of the army, altering recruitment process http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564831 - May 4378 - Propose Treaty withdrawal so that government appointments can be political http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564905 - May 4378 - Conservative moral code introduced to make Egelion a very conservative country http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564906 - October 4378 - Law and Order proposal, will rearm the police and restore capital punishment - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564907 Recent Communist activity - Treaty Withdrawal - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564905 - Communists threaten repercussions Law and Order Proposal - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564907 - Communists threaten civil war. No reason given. Proposed motto change - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=564850 - Communists claim support of Caille and Yadráz despite losing these regions heavily in last two elections. Communists claim the Liga can't form a stable government, despite Liga forming two majority governments. Newspaper article - http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55&p=131819#p131819 - No date given, although after last election, so Sep or Oct 4377 - Communists launch a well coordinated terrorist attack on the Liga HQ which kills 500+ and injures 1000+ - Phenomenal planning to conduct such an attack, despite no prior mention of the Communists having any such capability. - Newspaper article also mentions Communist "paramilitary" despite paramilitaries being illegal Newspaper article - http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55&p=131851#p131851 - No date given - A day after the terrorist attack above the Communists have apparently created a professional military corps of 3000 men, which has not only seized the main weapon factories but has also seized the capital of Caille province (also claimed on nation front page - http://classic.particracy.net/viewnation.php?nationid=34). Quite what the police, army and pro-government paramilitaries were doing at this point who knows. Liga response to Communist RP - So far we haven't been able to agree anything about the RP, but the Liga has proposed some legislation designed to deal with any Communist Terrorism. - Paramilitary Bill - Liga and Alliance allowed paramilitaries, Communists specifically prohibited - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=565045 - Declaration of State of Emergency - This allows the government to impose curfews, invite the army to support the police and for the police to disperse crowds http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=565040 - Proposal to share intelligence with Confederation of New Endralon and to conduct border patrols - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=565042 So what should we RP? - Clearly the Communists have initiated an RP, and the Liga is willing to RP too. At the moment we must agree; - The Liga and the Alliance are in control of the government. Through this the government controls the Interior and Justice Ministries (so the police and intelligence agencies) and the Minister of Defence (so the armed forces and any military intelligence agencies). - Egelion is a very conservative country, as shown with election results and with the regions ideological positions. A left-wing rebellion would not have the support of the people. - The government has initiated a series of legislation that would make it very hard for the Communists to gain mass support or have a large armed force. - Egelions only land neighbour has a conservative government, with the majority party being a member of the Anti-Communist League. - The only historic Bill that discusses the Armed Forces highlights that its ideology has at the very least been centre-right, it is unlikely to support any unconstitutional uprising by communists (albeit it is quite old - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=463352). However the Communists do have some factors in their favour; - The Communists were in government between 4368-4376 and as such during these eight years will likely have built up popular support and some support/infiltration in the security forces (as claimed here http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=565042 however the only military legislation put forward when the Communists were in power actually weakened the military http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=563522) Reason for conflict - The Communists have lost power and are upset at that fact and also at Liga legislation. However I am not sure enough has happened to have a civil war... RP Proposal - Campaign type - I suggest two campaign options are available to the Communists they either; - Form IRA/ETA style terrorist organisations that conducts a long term terror campaign, that doesn't really threaten the existence of the central state but causes many problems or - Form a FARC style guerrilla army that is largely based in rural areas with some strength in urban areas. However once again they are unlikely to defeat the government. Time length - - Short term - Whichever campaign the Communists choose from the above two lasts a few game years. The election in 4381 or 4385 decides the outcome (negotiated victory for either the government or the Communists) - Long term - Whichever campaign the Communists choose from the above two lasts until either the Liga or the Communists give up. Taking the RP forward - I propose we thrash out which campaign style and time length the Communists want. Who wins - I'd say everything is currently stacked in the favour of the Liga and the current government. So either we use the next two elections to decide who wins, or it is a battle of attrition until either the Communists or the Liga disband (go inactive or change their party) Posting on the forum - I propose one post a day, and only once the other party has posted, so that one side doesn't dominate what is on the forum. Posting on the nation page- I propose we continue to put forward resolutions (as the Liga have been doing), a majority vote means it passes and will naturally impact the camping. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:12:03, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partido Nacionalista y Unionista | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | I'd specifically like the Communists to respond to the last section; RP Proposal - Campaign type - I suggest two campaign options are available to the Communists they either; - Form IRA/ETA style terrorist organisations that conducts a long term terror campaign, that doesn't really threaten the existence of the central state but causes many problems or - Form a FARC style guerrilla army that is largely based in rural areas with some strength in urban areas. However once again they are unlikely to defeat the government. Time length - - Short term - Whichever campaign the Communists choose from the above two lasts a few game years. The election in 4381 or 4385 decides the outcome (negotiated victory for either the government or the Communists) - Long term - Whichever campaign the Communists choose from the above two lasts until either the Liga or the Communists give up. Taking the RP forward - I propose we thrash out which campaign style and time length the Communists want. Who wins - I'd say everything is currently stacked in the favour of the Liga and the current government. So either we use the next two elections to decide who wins, or it is a battle of attrition until either the Communists or the Liga disband (go inactive or change their party) Posting on the forum - I propose one post a day, and only once the other party has posted, so that one side doesn't dominate what is on the forum. Posting on the nation page- I propose we continue to put forward resolutions (as the Liga have been doing), a majority vote means it passes and will naturally impact the camping. |
| Date | 20:34:28, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partido Comunista de Egelion | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | In my defense, I will say that I have the paramilitary body since the party's creation and although it was illegal it had it. I already had an 80-year existence, so I could make a strong and experienced group capable of doing everything that the league says. |
| Date | 20:37:01, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Alianza de las Regiones | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | Sounds like a great idea! |
| Date | 20:40:28, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partido Nacionalista y Unionista | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | Communists happy to accept that, you have hard core of antifa type protesters mixed with veterans of revolutions from around the world. Perhaps as discussed in our last email exchanges you can amend your forum posts on the forums a bit so they're like the following; We should agree a new timeline, something like; Now - you conduct a terrorist attack killing maybe 10-20 police/Liga supporters/civilians, carry out some targeted assassinations of minor Liga politicians, raid an army barracks and steal weapons. Response - The Liga propose the legislation that is currently at vote (paramilitaries/state of emergency/cooperation with New Endralon) You - Further attacks/raids on police stations, arms smuggled in from abroad, seizing of remote towns in Amateria and Edergira. Me - Government backlash, arrests of communists and socialists and maybe a massacre of trade unionists or something by the police? |
| Date | 20:49:40, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partido Comunista de Egelion | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | I also acknowledge that my mistake has been to not notify. But since I started the roleplay, I'm more interested in the atmosphere ETA and I know that the League also considers it more realistic. The result of the roleplay for me would be a reform of the PCE towards a new more liberal party and once new elections are convened, propose a new program, different from the past. |
| Date | 21:02:41, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Alianza de las Regiones | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | I consider such idea to be realistic and interesting, and I personally like it |
| Date | 21:19:47, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partido Comunista de Egelion | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | very well, we agree. Now, when the league considers it opportune, we will start voting |
| Date | 22:29:52, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partido Comunista de Egelion | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | the other result that also seems positive is that when the cease-fire is decided, elections are called for legitimizing the winner, since I want to continue having a Communist party, I am not interested in a forced transition |
| Date | 22:47:20, April 14, 2018 CET | From | Partidul Independenței a Trei Republici | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | Hi, I'm from New Endralon. Do you want the Confederation to get involved at all? |
| Date | 00:10:43, April 15, 2018 CET | From | Partido Comunista de Egelion | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | a law is being voted on where it is proposed that Egelion and the Confederacy help each other as the KEDA treaty says |
| Date | 08:51:49, April 15, 2018 CET | From | Partido Nacionalista y Unionista | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | Communist party can you edit your forum posts to reflect the proposed new timeline ie a smaller terrorist attack and seizing remote rural villages. |
| Date | 10:13:54, April 15, 2018 CET | From | Partido Comunista de Egelion | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | Ok doing it |
| Date | 15:18:56, April 17, 2018 CET | From | Partido Nacionalista y Unionista | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | That's great, I've added some new news updates to keep the ball rolling. |
| Date | 14:45:23, April 27, 2018 CET | From | Partido Nacionalista y Unionista | To | Debating the OOC: Roleplay Discussion - Civil War/Terror Campaign in Egelion |
| Message | ooc: Following the passage of this - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=566154 the war is over. I propose we archive this document. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 62 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 58 |
| Random fact: There is a phpBB forum dedicated to Particracy. Please click the Forum link in the top game menu. Additions to the game, suggestions and discussion is held there so get involved. http://forum.particracy.net/ |
| Random quote: "The decadent international but individualistic capitalism in the hands of which we found ourselves after the war is not a success. It is not intelligent. It is not beautiful. It is not just. It is not virtuous. And it doesn't deliver the goods." - John Maynard Keynes |