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Bill: Defunct Treaty Elimination Act

Details

Submitted by^[?]: United Republics Party

Status^[?]: defeated

Votes: This bill proposes the withdrawal from a treaty. It will require half of the legislature to vote in favor^[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: August 3861

Description^[?]:

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date	20:54:52, June 13, 2015 CET
From	United Republics Party
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	M. Speaker, Treaties of friendship and cooperation serve no purpose when Lodamun is the only signatory. Likewise, treaties which embargo or restrict this nation's foreign affairs based on long ended controversies serve no propose either. If this government wishes to maintain these treaties, it should justify them to this Presidium and the Lodamese people. Nethuss Moctos AKC Leader

Date	21:25:26, June 13, 2015 CET
From	Great National Republican Guard
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	Mr. Speaker, My party agrees that the bilateral friendship treaties are defunct, but the other treaties make important statements which we have justified over and over: - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=421100 - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=417594 - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=417595 I notice that all the parties that propose withdrawal from these treaties have some hidden agenda. -- Trevor Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Vice President of GDR Lodamun

Date	21:35:52, June 13, 2015 CET
From	United Republics Party
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	M. Speaker, I ask for justification for outdated treaties and am provided nothing but insults. There is no hidden agenda when the AKC seeks debate on the merits. The GNRG believes that if a treaty withdrawal was voted down over a hundred years ago then it can't be justified to do so today? If that's the best logic it can provide, these treaties are even more worthless than I originally believed. Nethuss Moctos AKC Leader

Date	21:39:47, June 13, 2015 CET
From	Great National Republican Guard
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	Mr. Speaker, I have not insulted anyone, and I provided records of past debates on the issue. My party is tired of repeating itself over and over. Instead of just looking at the fact that the withdrawals were voted down in the past, Nethuss Moctos and other AKC members should consider reading the records of debates to see why the withdrawals were voted down. What was said by my grandfather then still stands now. -- Trevor Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Vice President of GDR Lodamun

Date	23:36:53, June 13, 2015 CET
From	United Republics Party
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	M. Speaker, I apologize to this chamber that once a century the GNRG might be asked to debate the foreign policy of this nation. Debates in the past are fine. In those debates the GNRG says Lodamun must keep certain policies in place because threats might emerge in the future. Well that future is today and when we ask what the threats are today we are pointed to debates that occurred before any current proud Lodamese citizen was even born. Shall we wait another hundred years or five hundred before we are allowed to address this issue on the merits? Must we lock the foreign policy on this course because something might happen someday? This Presidium can enact new legislation in response to new threats so I see no need to maintain old treaties that confront resolved or non-existent issues the GNRG won't even discuss.

Date	00:35:18, June 14, 2015 CET
From	Great National Republican Guard
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	Mr. Speaker, The point is that we have already discussed it. If we had yielded to the Hosian monarchists and anti-LN parties, who knows what Lodamun would have looked like today? Hosians almost successfully overthrew and dismantled the Great Democratic Republic. These treaties are a part of the character of the Great Democratic Republic that my party and the coalition defend. To understand what I mean here, refer to the same stance that my party had on the issue when the CMA had proposed treaty withdrawals. Members of my party do not have a problem debating, but these things were already discussed over and over, and these debates occurred too many times, just like the debates on reforming our constitution to allow a directly-elected President. My party is tired of repeating its positions on the same issues. My party is not the only party to have been confronted with several issues, and my father and I are not the only ones who have realised a recurring trend. Parties keep popping up, challenging the Great Democratic Republic and its values, and always fail. -- Trevor Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Vice President of GDR Lodamun

Date	02:30:52, June 14, 2015 CET
From	United Republics Party
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	M. Speaker, I have asked for reasons not to withdraw from these treaties. The AKC asked for them with an open mind. We have waited for those reasons as the Lodamese have waited for over 100 years. We can wait no longer. These treaties have an emotional meaning to GNRG for some reason, but those reasons can't or won't be explained rationally. Is this how we conduct Presidium business or the affairs of this nation? If some are too tired of fighting battles lifetimes ago, let them step aside so others can blaze our path to a bright future. These treaties serve no purpose. I urge the Presidium to vote YES on repeal. Nethuss Moctos AKC Leader

Date	03:18:28, June 14, 2015 CET
From	Great National Republican Guard
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	Mr. Speaker, I urge all Members of the Presidium to listen to this entire speech that I am about to make. The AKC leader is misleading the Presidium. We provided reasons. The treaties show the character of our Great Democratic Republic. They are also the only things keeping the Karavs here, and that is the only reason we have remained the bastion of strong currency in the world. We must show solidarity with republicanism and anti-tyranny in Gaduridos, as we have fought similar struggles here. We must maintain our conditional embargo on Solentia in the event that the Liberal Party pops up again; others said they wouldn't have popped up again after the first 3 times they disappeared, but they popped up again anyway. These treaties help to define the Great Democratic Republic. Lodamese Nationalism helps to define the Great Democratic Republic. People, who do not like these things, usually aim to dismantle the Great Democratic Republic. Such attempts have already been made by 2 separate waves of Hosian monarchists and at least 3 separate waves of "new era" republicans. These are the same issues that my father and grandfather raised before. They are the same reasons that my party opposed withdrawal 100 years ago, and they are the same reason that I stand by now. As architects and co-founders of the Great Democratic Republic, my party is assuring the Presidium that passage of this bill means the beginning of the end of the Great Democratic Republic. Usually, we are content with other parties disagreeing with us and we do not try to coerce our coalition partners to voting along with us in regular legislative matters, however this is an issue of critical importance for us and we ask kindly for our coalition partners to stand by us in defeating this attempt to destroy our Great Democratic Republic. Just like we saw a Hosian monarchist agenda in the past, with the CMA trying to withdraw us from the treaty so that they could legitimise their own attempts to form a Hosian monarchy in Lodamun, it is very likely that the AKC has an anti-Kregon agenda and wants a new era in which Lodamun becomes a fragmented tyranny where the citizens of Kregon are oppressed in a way that citizens of Gaduridos were once oppressed. -- Trevor Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Vice President of GDR Lodamun

Date	05:22:52, June 14, 2015 CET
From	United Republics Party
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	M. Speaker, Trevor Fertig makes an impassioned speech regarding the treaties in this bill; however his passion is in no way connected with the current reality. His speech should add clarity to this issue for all parties in the land. He says we need an embargo against an enemy that does not exist because it might exist at some unknown time in the future. I suppose the Presidium in his mind could not enact legislation at that time dealing with a threat that actually exists. If there are future enemies we can confront them then. Lodamun should not be in the business of adhering to treaties against imaginary enemies. Gaduridos itself has signed the treaty disavowing the Adamsonite Regime. What can Lodamun add to a nation which itself has disavowed its own regime? The answer is not much. In fact, Lodamun is the only signatory to this treaty other than Gaduridos. Two parties in a treaty is better than one. The embargo against Solentia is imposed by Lodamun alone. How can treaties where Lodamun stands apart from Terra at large demonstrate "solidarity with republicanism and anti-tyranny?" M. Speaker, we are a coalition of one in this regard. If this is the foundation of the Republic, it is crumbling. Trevor Fertig knows he can't win this debate on the merits so he has resorted to every dirty political trick in the book. He claims AKC is a radical force for fragmented tyranny - not true. Then he seeks to impose his own tyranny on his coalition. Mr Fertig said, "Usually [...] we do not try to coerce our coalition partners [...] however this is an issue of critical importance." In other words, turn off your brains and just go with me on this one. I urge the Presidium to use their brains and vote YES on repeal.

Date	08:30:51, June 14, 2015 CET
From	Liberal Progressive Alliance
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	M. Speaker, The ECA is growing tired of the GNRG's repeated notion that 'if it worked in the past, it will work now.' The AKC are correct - these treaties are horridly outdated and in a number of these 'friendship treaties' we are the only ratifiers (the other sides of these treaties withdrew long ago it would seem). We appreciate a need to acknowledge the past - it is our history and origins of our nation. But to cling on so desperately to the past as the GNRG does is a terrible practice. We must look towards the future - make new treaties, change the executive branch if the political climate requires it. We need to think about what is best for Lodamun NOW. Not what was best hundreds of years ago. We often find the GNRG to be patronising and condescending and none of us should have to stand for it. This bill symbolises a new path for the Great Democratic Republic of Lodamun. A path that we should all walk down together as we take this nation into the future. If the GNRG continue with their attitudes, then they risk becoming extinct with the rest of the dinosaurs. David Butterman Leader Eastern-Central Alliance

Date	08:31:26, June 14, 2015 CET
From	Great National Republican Guard
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	Mr. Speaker, I do not appreciate dishonesty. I did not say that we need n embargo against an enemy that might exist in the future. I said we need to maintain the treaty because it is a conditional embargo. The embargo on Solentia is only in effect when a particular party is in power. The AKC is complaining that the enemy does not exist right now. Others said the same thing in the past when the party went inactive for a few years, but the party popped up again. We maintain the treaty with Gaduridos to show solidarity with them. Additionally, the authors of the treaty were the founders of my party, and the treaty and its surrounding events have a lot to do with recent Lodamese history. As for the practical purpose of Lodamun signing the treaty, it serves as a part of the character of the Great Democratic Republic, and it illegitimates any attempt - whethe in Gaduridos or Lodamun - to set up a government similar to the ones that the ATR and IML joined forces to overthrow in Gaduridos. It was the cooperation in this conflict, as well as the establishment of hybrid governments in Beluzia and Lodamun, that blurred the lines between the ATR and IML, and brought a new era to the world in which the major ATR-IML divide was over. I do not seek to impose any tyranny on the coalition I belong to. Coalition partners may ask me to vote on bills considered critical, and they can explain why they are critical. And it is no big secret, nor a conspiracy theory on my part, that the AKC dislikes Kregon and wants to sabotage the economy of Kregon: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=439155 \| Just like the CMA realised that its tyrannical values of Hosian monarchy were illegitimated by our ratification of the anti-Adamsonite treaty, the AKC is realising that its divisive agenda can only work if the treaty is dismantled. -- Trevor Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Vice President of GDR Lodamun

Date	09:23:43, June 14, 2015 CET
From	People of Freedom (P.F)
To	Debating the Defunct Treaty Elimination Act
Message	Mr Speaker. This bill should be separated. Getting rid of useless co - operation treaties. Whilst maintaining sanctions. We will have to vote negative. Amy Lane Leader of the P.F within the Presidium

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Seats

yes

Total Seats: 170

Total Seats: 429

abstain

Total Seats: 0

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Bill: Defunct Treaty Elimination Act

Details

Proposals

Article 1

Article 2

Article 3

Article 4

Debate

Voting